As bad as the Witchaven games were and as much as you joke about them, they still were innovative enough to let lots of other game designers create fps games based on the sole idea of Witchaven to have an melee / close combat system in fps games. Also it was innovative enough, that some bands created their own album covers etc based on Witchaven's cover designs. So overall the Witchaven series had more success than hundreds of other fps games.
Witchaven didn't invent close combat FPSs. Heretic, Elder Scrolls Arena, and King's Field all released earlier and one of the criticisms of Witchaven was that it was a Heretic ripoff. Witchaven's cover art was also by Ken Kelly, who'd been designing album covers just like it for bands like KISS and Manowar since the 70s, and his work is heavily inspired by Frank Frazetta. Most metal bands haven't even heard of Witchaven, and they definitely weren't inspired by its boxart. Witchaven, on the flip side, was inspired by those bands. Witchaven was never all that innovative or even inventive, though I will say they poured some money into hiring Kelly. Even the story itself was adapted and licensed from a tabletop RPG.
First Witchaven 1 figure was multiple times used on album front covers and even without any change of it's design. But yeah, blablabla... Heretic had exactly what melee combat? One, the staff (and don't come up with the Gauntlets Of The Necromancer, they weren't close combat). So this is a stupid comparision. Maybe you should play that game first before taking it for that. Elder Scrolls Arena was not a FPS, but a Dungeon Crawler RPG with a few outdoor parts. So this is not fitting in any way, because wrong genre. Maybe next time you inform yourself.
Listen, I get that you like this objectively poor quality game, but making shit up about it and simping for it isn't making you look well informed or smart. Heretic wasn't the only game I listed either, just one that it's commonly compared to, because the atmosphere is identical and Capstone had a reputation for leeching off better companies. And again, Ken Kelly's art has been used for album covers for decades before Witchaven even existed, so no, your claim that bands were influenced by a Capstone game is still laughable. Here's the cover of Triumph of Steel from 1992 for example. I'm just glad somebody put this trash game's boxart to more appropriate use down the line, probably just called Kelly up and asked him to use one of his paintings. On that note I'd love to actually see this supposed album. I'm seeing a lot of Manowar covers (predating Witchaven) with a very similar warrior design, but nothing that used this boxart that I can find.
You're good in excusing. I'm sure you will find anytime a new excuse for anything. But you're putting words in my mouth which i never spoke out, so on this point you really are a weak person. First, i never said that i like Witchaven or that i find it good or bad and that's a fact. Second, if you go that way any FPS would be similar to Witchaven because any FPS game has at least one close combat weapon (if you take a fist or foot as aweaoin). But that was never a point, deal with it. Third, it's completely unimportant what Ken Kelly('s art) did before or after the Witchaven cover designs, because what i said or claimed was only about that and nothing else. Again, you're just searching for excuses. Stop trying to imply what's not there to imply. You're just simply wrong on that. Deal with that or not, but the one who makes himself ridiculous is you with every further comment.
Strangely insulting tone you seem to be going for here, considering I never directly insulted you in the first place. All I've done is point out that Witchaven isn't an innovative game, which is true. You're defending the game and seem to know, well, some things about it even if they aren't strictly correct, so it was only logical to infer that you liked the game. You at least respect it enough to defend it. I couldn't imagine defending a game I didn't like myself, but you do you. That being said, what you claimed was that Ken Kelly's artwork in Witchaven inspired musical album covers. I clarified that Ken Kelly was a specialist in metal album covers decades before the development of Witchaven. He's also a very well known fantasy artist in general, and his work inspired Capstone to hire him. That's not an excuse for anything. That's a cut-and-dry fact. In fact, no excuses are being made here, and from the look of this post I don't think you even know what an excuse is. Also I'm still waiting for that album cover that you insist exists.
Since you're misinterpreting from the very beginning... I'm not defending, but just clarifying or pointing out the things you misunderstood. It's not my fault, that you're unable to understand the difference. What should i defend, if i never gave out any opinion on that game? Do you see now what i mean? Of course i know that game a lot: I'm playing and programming computer games since 1988 and of course the Witchaven series was one i stumbled across. Regardless of it's quality, it was very different from the FPS which were released up until then and even later ones were not comparable at full and that's just a simple fact. And again, i still have not giving out my personal opinion on it. So still no defense. :) About the cover art design: I never claimed that bands were influenced by this game. I explicit wrote: "Also it was innovative enough, that some bands created their own album covers etc based on Witchaven's cover designs." The is nothing written about being "inspired" or "influenced". Only that the cover art from that game series was innovative (and yes it may have been a wrong word) enough that some (underground) bands used it here and then and at least one or two without even re-designing it. No idea how you can come up with "inspired" or "influenced" and a Ken Kelly biography. The musicans or whoever made the covers for them mostly saw the cover and found it looking cool, so they used it for their albums...and that's it plain and simple. I wouldn't even wonder, that many who used it for their album cover don't even know that it was from Ken Kelly or even who Ken Kelly is. :) You make it so complicated, while there's nothing to make complicate. :)
Dude, give it up. Your original comment is just flat out, objectively wrong. All you are doing is twisting and making things up to make it seem like this is an innovative game. All of that has been addressed by philharmann as to why it is completely untrue. You can't just call facts you don't want to acknowledge as "excuses."
And it's plain and simple that you have no idea what you're talking about, which is why I took the time to correct you from the beginning. I don't want people reading the misinfo you wrote and actually believing it. There's nothing to misunderstand, and nothing I've said is complicated. I've been stating objective facts from the start. I get that you want to cover your own ass. I get that you're trying to move goalposts to save face. And I get that your whole plan to sound super smart fell apart in one reply, but you're gonna have to take the "L" and get over yourself. Fact is your supposed badass programming experience doesn't automatically make you right about everything, and it sure as hell doesn't give you the authority to spread half-baked half-truths, like the absurd notion that Witchaven of all games was any kind of revolutionary. It was as far from a "different FPS" as you could get, a straight-up ripoff of previous games I mentioned (games that you either awkwardly dismissed or just flat-out ignored.) Unless by "different" you mean it was notably bad. That was pretty different. Nothing Capstone hasn't done before, but "different" in a sub-30 IQ kind of way. Both Witchaven games suck, famously. As for the album art side of this argument, you're gonna have to give up on that right now. I guarantee you that no band based any album cover on Witchaven's boxart, and yes "thinking it looked cool and using it" is exactly what "inspired" and "influenced" means. They saw Ken Kelly's art first, I guarantee it, and would've had to contact him in order to actually use it. The man's done art for bands who are lightyears above the level of fame that Capstone had ever gotten. Any band of any experience saw his work on Manowar or KISS, or even fucking Rainbow, before they would have seen some trashy bargain bin Capstone game. Even all those mystical "(underground) bands" that you can't even name (because they likely don't exist) would've seen the art for KISS's Destroyer first (in case you're not aware, that's their iconic fourth album.) Witchaven's boxart doesn't even look much different from any Manowar album cover, so your argument is and will remain completely groundless until you pull out some album that directly used the box art from Witchaven (something you keep forgetting to do). I couldn't find it myself, and I know where to look. Listen, I get that English is your second or third language, really I do (and hey, you're almost approaching good at it, great job!), but you don't see me going around speaking broken Hindi and lecturing native speakers on the definitions of their words. You don't know what a quarter of the words you're saying even mean, and worse, you're assuming that you do and are unintentionally misleading others by using them wrong. It's embarrassing.
Kiss Psycho Circus The Nightmare Child comes to mind.. Great Game. Someone should remaster that for modern machines. I can get it to work on my windows 10 but it has texture issues.
I've heard oddly good things about that. Been wanting to play it, but like you said, texture issues. Shame it's always such a toss-up when it comes to remastering games that involve major musicians.
You'd have to work really hard or have a special kind of anti-talent to make something worse than Witchaven. In fact most of the few FPS games that are worse than Witchaven were made by Capstone itself.
Ahh now That was a Game.. or at least it could have been. I read all the TekWar books and loved them. If they made a modern fps based on the series it would Rock.
Yeah, given the right team and focus on game design it could potentially be great. The universe of TekWar really does suit a cyberpunk video game. And we did end up seeing a similar way more successful aversion to killing enemies in the Thief series so the ideas were good on paper. That execution though, holy shit.
if this game was released in the early wolfenstein 3d years it would be great not in the years when heretic and hexen pretty much make it look like shit
https://youtu.be/tTY2o1kmnMU
Heretic had exactly what melee combat? One, the staff (and don't come up with the Gauntlets Of The Necromancer, they weren't close combat). So this is a stupid comparision. Maybe you should play that game first before taking it for that. Elder Scrolls Arena was not a FPS, but a Dungeon Crawler RPG with a few outdoor parts. So this is not fitting in any way, because wrong genre.
Maybe next time you inform yourself.
And again, Ken Kelly's art has been used for album covers for decades before Witchaven even existed, so no, your claim that bands were influenced by a Capstone game is still laughable. Here's the cover of Triumph of Steel from 1992 for example.
I'm just glad somebody put this trash game's boxart to more appropriate use down the line, probably just called Kelly up and asked him to use one of his paintings.
On that note I'd love to actually see this supposed album. I'm seeing a lot of Manowar covers (predating Witchaven) with a very similar warrior design, but nothing that used this boxart that I can find.
But you're putting words in my mouth which i never spoke out, so on this point you really are a weak person.
First, i never said that i like Witchaven or that i find it good or bad and that's a fact.
Second, if you go that way any FPS would be similar to Witchaven because any FPS game has at least one close combat weapon (if you take a fist or foot as aweaoin). But that was never a point, deal with it.
Third, it's completely unimportant what Ken Kelly('s art) did before or after the Witchaven cover designs, because what i said or claimed was only about that and nothing else.
Again, you're just searching for excuses. Stop trying to imply what's not there to imply. You're just simply wrong on that. Deal with that or not, but the one who makes himself ridiculous is you with every further comment.
You're defending the game and seem to know, well, some things about it even if they aren't strictly correct, so it was only logical to infer that you liked the game. You at least respect it enough to defend it. I couldn't imagine defending a game I didn't like myself, but you do you.
That being said, what you claimed was that Ken Kelly's artwork in Witchaven inspired musical album covers. I clarified that Ken Kelly was a specialist in metal album covers decades before the development of Witchaven. He's also a very well known fantasy artist in general, and his work inspired Capstone to hire him. That's not an excuse for anything. That's a cut-and-dry fact.
In fact, no excuses are being made here, and from the look of this post I don't think you even know what an excuse is.
Also I'm still waiting for that album cover that you insist exists.
I'm not defending, but just clarifying or pointing out the things you misunderstood. It's not my fault, that you're unable to understand the difference. What should i defend, if i never gave out any opinion on that game? Do you see now what i mean?
Of course i know that game a lot: I'm playing and programming computer games since 1988 and of course the Witchaven series was one i stumbled across. Regardless of it's quality, it was very different from the FPS which were released up until then and even later ones were not comparable at full and that's just a simple fact.
And again, i still have not giving out my personal opinion on it. So still no defense. :)
About the cover art design: I never claimed that bands were influenced by this game. I explicit wrote: "Also it was innovative enough, that some bands created their own album covers etc based on Witchaven's cover designs."
The is nothing written about being "inspired" or "influenced". Only that the cover art from that game series was innovative (and yes it may have been a wrong word) enough that some (underground) bands used it here and then and at least one or two without even re-designing it. No idea how you can come up with "inspired" or "influenced" and a Ken Kelly biography. The musicans or whoever made the covers for them mostly saw the cover and found it looking cool, so they used it for their albums...and that's it plain and simple. I wouldn't even wonder, that many who used it for their album cover don't even know that it was from Ken Kelly or even who Ken Kelly is. :)
You make it so complicated, while there's nothing to make complicate. :)
There's nothing to misunderstand, and nothing I've said is complicated. I've been stating objective facts from the start. I get that you want to cover your own ass. I get that you're trying to move goalposts to save face. And I get that your whole plan to sound super smart fell apart in one reply, but you're gonna have to take the "L" and get over yourself.
Fact is your supposed badass programming experience doesn't automatically make you right about everything, and it sure as hell doesn't give you the authority to spread half-baked half-truths, like the absurd notion that Witchaven of all games was any kind of revolutionary. It was as far from a "different FPS" as you could get, a straight-up ripoff of previous games I mentioned (games that you either awkwardly dismissed or just flat-out ignored.) Unless by "different" you mean it was notably bad. That was pretty different. Nothing Capstone hasn't done before, but "different" in a sub-30 IQ kind of way. Both Witchaven games suck, famously.
As for the album art side of this argument, you're gonna have to give up on that right now. I guarantee you that no band based any album cover on Witchaven's boxart, and yes "thinking it looked cool and using it" is exactly what "inspired" and "influenced" means. They saw Ken Kelly's art first, I guarantee it, and would've had to contact him in order to actually use it. The man's done art for bands who are lightyears above the level of fame that Capstone had ever gotten. Any band of any experience saw his work on Manowar or KISS, or even fucking Rainbow, before they would have seen some trashy bargain bin Capstone game. Even all those mystical "(underground) bands" that you can't even name (because they likely don't exist) would've seen the art for KISS's Destroyer first (in case you're not aware, that's their iconic fourth album.)
Witchaven's boxart doesn't even look much different from any Manowar album cover, so your argument is and will remain completely groundless until you pull out some album that directly used the box art from Witchaven (something you keep forgetting to do). I couldn't find it myself, and I know where to look.
Listen, I get that English is your second or third language, really I do (and hey, you're almost approaching good at it, great job!), but you don't see me going around speaking broken Hindi and lecturing native speakers on the definitions of their words. You don't know what a quarter of the words you're saying even mean, and worse, you're assuming that you do and are unintentionally misleading others by using them wrong. It's embarrassing.
And now we know why.
That execution though, holy shit.
not in the years when heretic and hexen pretty much make it look like shit