I'm a novice at this, but yes, I will definitely change the topic sometimes if I can. Being a liberal, I like to build common ground with the person I am speaking to by discussing liberal causes with them, something they probably weren't expecting, because I want them to feel they are a person, that I am taking time to get to know them as people rather than see them as an enemy, and to let them see I am a person with interests too. Prolifers are normal people, but how to communicate that to some advocates of legal abortion is a real challenge.
Well said. I'll often talk about being open-minded by describing the process by which I became opposed to the death penalty and waterboarding. That tends to both give me credibility - I'm not just saying I'm open to changing my views about serious, moral issues. Secondly, it builds common ground as most pro-choice people I talk to are also opposed to capital punishment and waterboarding.
I do hear you. I do notice people tend to be more drawn to me when I discuss, say, animal rights (sometimes I'll even talk about favourite books) with them than if I just say “abortion is murder” which is true but unhelpful in many cases. How did you become opposed to the death penalty and waterboarding and why?
I don't have time to do either of these issues real justice here, but here's the short versions. :) Capital Punishment: This one was the bigger struggle to me, because I am a Christian. If I take the Bible seriously, it's clear that God is not opposed to capital punishment at a moral level. Obviously He would be opposed to innocent people being executed, but some people argue that the state never has moral justification for capital punishment. I don't see a way for someone to both take the Bible seriously and believe that statement to be true. So I'm opposed to capital punishment more on pragmatic grounds. I think our justice system is flawed. I think innocent people are still executed, and I think that's worse than not executing guilty people and putting them in jail for the rest of their lives instead. Waterboarding: I think I was okay with waterboarding before I learned what it actually is like. It's not merely being made uncomfortable. It's pretty clearly torture when you read the way it's described from people who have tried it, and in those cases they knew it wasn't being forced on them and that they could opt out at anytime. One account I read said that there are mild versions of it but then when he tried the more intense version that our military has done, it was the worst thing he had ever experienced. He then described other tortures he would prefer to go through. I don't know how to defend the use of torture without using utilitarian reasoning, and I'm not a utilitarian. I'm okay with making prisoners uncomfortable or intensely interrogating them, but there are some things that the US called "enhanced interrogation" that I think belong in the torture category.
Your positions are perfectly fair, and I tend to share them myself. In regards to the death penalty, what about child molesters? Should they receive the death penalty? I mean, I struggle a little with that one because I know victims totally deserve justice, but what if you've got the wrong guy?? Also, concerning waterboarding, do you think it is ethically acceptable to use it on nazi thugs and IS thugs? I think they deserve something painful but I don't want to stoop down to their ugly level, I'm better than that! What do you think of the assertion (regarding original sin) that we're all as bad as Hitler???? I found that one SHOCKING! Thank you for the good job you do, persuading people to reconsider their position on abortion. I don't want to take you from that work or from your family, even if you miss some of my replies. What matters is your human rights advocacy!
I like your points about not going from a script. A lot of online abortion debates tend to end up sounding super-scripted, to the point where it sounds more like a firing-off of talking points and less like a debate or discussion. I've got to pick the nit over "I’m for the equal right to life of all people, born or unborn, straight or gay", though, in that all people aren't either straight or gay.
That's a fair point. This wording was more poetic, given the context is regarding gay marriage. We're aware there are other sexual orientations. Totally agree with you about people sounding scripted or like they're merely trading talking points instead of hearing each other.
I figured you were aware there are other sexual orientations, but it really, really sucks when language is supposed to be about "all people" and then goes on to describe all people as excluding you personally. (I'm bisexual.)
I hear you. Thanks for the pushback. I've edited the line to say this: "It’s worth saying that you don’t hate gay people, and that it’s unconscionable and disgusting when people are bullied or abused because they’re gay. I’m for the equal right to life of all people, born or unborn, regardless of their sexual orientation."
say, animal rights (sometimes I'll even talk about favourite books) with them than if I just say “abortion is murder” which is true but unhelpful in many cases.
How did you become opposed to the death penalty and waterboarding and why?
Capital Punishment:
This one was the bigger struggle to me, because I am a Christian. If I take the Bible seriously, it's clear that God is not opposed to capital punishment at a moral level. Obviously He would be opposed to innocent people being executed, but some people argue that the state never has moral justification for capital punishment. I don't see a way for someone to both take the Bible seriously and believe that statement to be true.
So I'm opposed to capital punishment more on pragmatic grounds. I think our justice system is flawed. I think innocent people are still executed, and I think that's worse than not executing guilty people and putting them in jail for the rest of their lives instead.
Waterboarding:
I think I was okay with waterboarding before I learned what it actually is like. It's not merely being made uncomfortable. It's pretty clearly torture when you read the way it's described from people who have tried it, and in those cases they knew it wasn't being forced on them and that they could opt out at anytime. One account I read said that there are mild versions of it but then when he tried the more intense version that our military has done, it was the worst thing he had ever experienced. He then described other tortures he would prefer to go through.
I don't know how to defend the use of torture without using utilitarian reasoning, and I'm not a utilitarian. I'm okay with making prisoners uncomfortable or intensely interrogating them, but there are some things that the US called "enhanced interrogation" that I think belong in the torture category.
In regards to the death penalty, what about child molesters? Should they receive the death penalty? I mean, I struggle a little with that one because I know victims totally deserve justice, but what if you've got the wrong guy??
Also, concerning waterboarding, do you think it is ethically acceptable to use it on nazi thugs and IS thugs? I think they deserve something painful but I don't want to stoop down to their ugly level, I'm better than that!
What do you think of the assertion (regarding original sin) that we're all as bad as Hitler???? I found that one SHOCKING!
Thank you for the good job you do, persuading people to reconsider their position on abortion. I don't want to take you from that work or from your family, even if you miss some of my replies. What matters is your human rights advocacy!
I've got to pick the nit over "I’m for the equal right to life of all people, born or unborn, straight or gay", though, in that all people aren't either straight or gay.
Totally agree with you about people sounding scripted or like they're merely trading talking points instead of hearing each other.
"It’s worth saying that you don’t hate gay people, and that it’s unconscionable and disgusting when people are bullied or abused because they’re gay. I’m for the equal right to life of all people, born or unborn, regardless of their sexual orientation."