Hello, thank you so much for being interested in this conversion. What do they believe on how a person gets saved? Or that wouldn't be on their radar since their Jesus isn't the true Savior,! PSS. Please pray for me I had a great opportunity when I happened to see 2 Elders riding bikes. However, my approach was very arrogant and got nowhere with them which I truly understand. I just need to be more like Jesus as in grace! Even though I repented to God, I can't help but feel I I may not get another chance. Thanks once again for this is a great help! Respectfully, Michele Haney
Hey Michele! I think it's always good to start with learning how a group would describe their own views. This pro-LDS website has a pretty good article summarizing their views on salvation: #
(I said, “Yes, because I believe it’s possible that I believe false things. Are you open-minded too?”) Are you stating here that you doubt parts of the bible? or just things in general you ponder about? As a Christian we should believe what the Word says 100%. Just curious. Thank you and God bless.
Sounds like a very interesting conversation. I seriously wonder whether some Mormons would be interested in coming on the podcasts I do. I find Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses interesting because they actually go visit people. Telling them I'm an atheist would most likely send them running scared though.
The Mormons are pro-life, though... I'm just a little confused, if you are trying to reason with them on pro-life vs pro-choice, I believe you are all on the same side of this issue.
I realize that this may be considered off topic so no hard feelings if it just gets deleted, but why did you say that having them pray for you would be the equivalent of them “praying to a brick wall”?
That's a fair question. What I meant was that IF they are not actually Christians, then arguably they aren't praying to anybody who's listening and answering their prayers. Over the course of the rest of our meetings, we continued praying with them. It wasn't doing any harm, and who knows, perhaps God does sometimes bless those prayers, even if the person who's praying is really confused about who God is.
Ok. Thank you for your reply. If you don’t mind my asking, what would you consider a Christian? Because when I think “Christian”, I think someone who believes that Jesus Christ lived, was the son of God, was crucified, resurrected and all that. I don’t know any other way of defining it (at least I've never heard of one). And, as far as I have been led to believe, the Mormons believe in all of that. So would that not make them Christians? Or is there something else that is needed to be called a Christian? Because it seems to me that most other churches that teach the bible accept each other as Christians despite having different interpretations.
I definitely think we should have an inclusive view of Christianity, until we're talking about heretical views. Mormons don't believe in the trinity, for example. They believe that we all become gods after die, with our own worlds we get to be lord over. Those views are heretical, so I think it's more confusing than helpful to call that "Christianity."
The trinity is God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost? Or am I wrong on that? Because Mormons do believe in all three of those, but they believe they are 3 separate entities. Is the trinity supposed to be the belief that all three are one in the same? I'm a bit confused about it now. Oh Well I obviously have some research to do on that point. I wont expect you to explain it all to me here. And I do see the value in distinguishing between religions that keep more to the standard and those that stray so far from it, as long as it's done for that purpose and not to exclude Mormons. So you have given me something to think about. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate it.
Is there a possible, conceivable South Park episode that could be written about your beliefs that would make you uncomfortable? If so, what would it contain? Something like Jesus zooming up into the sky perhaps? Please don't take offence, I mean, some people probably look at the beliefs of Christians in the same way you might look at the beliefs of Mormons.
I love this question. Zero offense taken. This isn't an exhaustive answer, but yes, absolutely there are some things that South Park could make fun of or someone could press me on that would make me uncomfortable. Jesus breaking the laws of physics doesn't bother me, but the doctrine of Hell really bothers me. It would make more sense to me philosophically if it turns out that Hell isn't a place of torment.
If by "doctrine of hell" you mean what most Christians currently believe Hell to be, a place of eternal, conscious torture, that is a subject of theological interest to me right now. I do have some misgivings about it that I haven't resolved yet, but to be fair, I haven't taken the time yet to read the most compelling arguments on both sides. (Most of my reading in the last two years has been purposefully ordered towards leadership/business books, to help me lead ERI well.)
But if you're ever interested in having a talk with me about the hell thing, let me know. It actually has a relation to the abortion debate that may not at first appear obvious.
Yes, that's what I meant. I see it as a moral problem for god to literally create a torture chamber. Rather sadistic. My mother is a Christian who takes the position that it's not actually biblical in the original languages.
The concept of hell has really bothered too. Some religions believe anyone that dies unbaptized never get a chance to prove themselves regardless of their age, and even for people that are flat out bad, how can they deserve such a harsh infinite punishment? How is that fair, and is it easier for someone to go to heaven than others based off of their parents influence and life experiences? Can you blame someone who was raised by drug addicts and alcoholics for not turning out religious? I know that there are countless stories of people that have turned their lives around but can you really expect everyone to be like that? And there is only heaven and hell, black and white, yes or no, so is it not possible for people to go to hell when if they had just been the slightest tad bit nicer and closer to Jesus they they would have gone to heaven?
During the episode, if memory serves me, the message "Mormons really believe this" or something similar was flashed on screen. I do not remember exactly what the belief was. I find, however, with the greatest of respect, that this an example of the kettle calling the pot, black. Talking snake? Talking donkey? Walking on water? Turning wine into water?
I think the idea of starting your next conversation focused on open mindedness is a good one. In the conversations I have had with those who claim to be Christian, but are non-trinitarian, I find that I eventually hit this wall where they seem to have this "special knowledge" that trumps scripture and Christian tradition. That special knowledge can be anything from a "new" translation of the Bible, a random scholar who argues that the early heresies in the church were actually majority opinions, or special revelation like the book of Mormon. It can be difficult to get them to evaluate this special knowledge critically in the same way they would evaluate other truth claims. There can also that sense of deep emotional commitment to a community that is common in Mormonism and other non-trinitarian sects. And of course our emotions affect our judgement. And all that applies to pro-life and pro-choice people. Like we said in that Life Report episode, open-mindedness is the corrective to the "myside bias" or that very natural human inclination to give a greater benefit of the doubt to our own views than we do to views with which we disagree. We have to work to be fair to all views and critical to our own. Good luck on your next conversation!
@Guest “I certainly hope the Mormons are right. If they are, then I could have all three of Jon Huntsman's daughters!” Are you suggesting that YOU are so magnetic that you could have just any woman you may desire? I’m pretty sure that (Mormonism right or not) his daughters will do alright without the likes of you. I think it is interesting that on a pro-life blog (of all places) you fail to acknowledge that Huntsman has 5 daughters.
I was only trying to make a lighthearted joke, but it probably sounded better in my head. My apologies, I can see that it was snarky and potentially offensive.
PSS. Please pray for me I had a great opportunity when I happened to see 2 Elders riding bikes.
However, my approach was very arrogant and got nowhere with them which I truly understand.
I just need to be more like Jesus as in grace!
Even though I repented to God, I can't help but feel I I may not get another chance.
Thanks once again for this is a great help!
Respectfully, Michele Haney
Are you stating here that you doubt parts of the bible? or just things in general you ponder about? As a Christian we should believe what the Word says 100%. Just curious. Thank you and God bless.
Telling them I'm an atheist would most likely send them running scared though.
Over the course of the rest of our meetings, we continued praying with them. It wasn't doing any harm, and who knows, perhaps God does sometimes bless those prayers, even if the person who's praying is really confused about who God is.
If you don’t mind my asking, what would you consider a Christian? Because when I think “Christian”, I think someone who believes that Jesus Christ lived, was the son of God, was crucified, resurrected and all that. I don’t know any other way of defining it (at least I've never heard of one). And, as far as I have been led to believe, the Mormons believe in all of that. So would that not make them Christians? Or is there something else that is needed to be called a Christian? Because it seems to me that most other churches that teach the bible accept each other as Christians despite having different interpretations.
And I do see the value in distinguishing between religions that keep more to the standard and those that stray so far from it, as long as it's done for that purpose and not to exclude Mormons. So you have given me something to think about. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate it.
There can also that sense of deep emotional commitment to a community that is common in Mormonism and other non-trinitarian sects. And of course our emotions affect our judgement.
And all that applies to pro-life and pro-choice people. Like we said in that Life Report episode, open-mindedness is the corrective to the "myside bias" or that very natural human inclination to give a greater benefit of the doubt to our own views than we do to views with which we disagree. We have to work to be fair to all views and critical to our own.
Good luck on your next conversation!
Are you suggesting that YOU are so magnetic that you could have just any woman you may desire? I’m pretty sure that (Mormonism right or not) his daughters will do alright without the likes of you.
I think it is interesting that on a pro-life blog (of all places) you fail to acknowledge that Huntsman has 5 daughters.